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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 4, 2020 17:34:05 GMT 1
DataPerfect uses Shift+Arrow key to rapidly move among fields. Under VDos, the Shift+Arrow is treated as Arrow only so Macros that use Shift+Arrow and normal operation is much harder.
I suspect that Shift+Arrow key combination cannot be remedied in present versions but wonder if it could be added in Update -- Soon?
Also, I use Shell Macros to open PDF, DOCX and WPD files from DP fields by capturing file name using Shell Screen Copy and -- VDos does not support Shell Screen Copy Blocks to Macro Variables.
Currently, VDos does not appear to support Marcro Variable pastes to Shell's "Go To DOS" screen but does allow Macro pastes if I use Shell's G "Go To DOS For One Command" Shell DOS/Batch option.
In that regard, your Advanced Group advice to use CMD /C "path\filename.doc" works perfectly. I wonder if there is a VDos setting I can us to enable "Go To Dos" selection to accept Macro screen pastes?
Until COVID put everyone working remotely, I was able to insist that all of our office Win8.1 machines run 32bit.
Work at home has force me to try to implement DP on CITRIX desktop. Looks ok so far, but I sure hope I won't need to rebuild all of the Shell Macros and DP screens to launch PDF and other files using "Go to Dos for One Command" option.
Wonderful program that we'll gladly register and pay for if I can get macro behavior working properly.
Thank you,
Tom Yuhas
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Post by Jos on Oct 4, 2020 19:10:30 GMT 1
vDos reports Shift+Arrow combinations correctly: If you use the latest (2020.03.01) version, could you submit some basic DP program demonstrating Shift+Arrow not working. Don’t really get how Macro Variable paste is supposed to work when DP has started a second command processor. The "Go To DOS For One Command" is of course a different story, the paste is done within DP. The next vDos version will have a COPYCLIP = LPTx/COMx directive in config.sys. It will enable up to 4 commands, shown as you release the left mouse button at selecting text. The /Process ones will create the LPTx/COMx.asc and .txt files, as with printing, but containing the (eventual accumulated) clipboard contents. Also set the Windows VDOS environment variable to the most recent line, and start whatever is defined by the corresponding (separate) LPTx/COMx= directive. Perhaps that would be an alternative to the “Go To DOS”: Jos
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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 4, 2020 19:53:28 GMT 1
I will attempt to install the latest version and report on shift+arrow.
Both the "The go to dos for one command" and "1. Go To DOS" are both Shell commands -- neither is DP Based. If I start in Editor or WP5.1 or whatever and capture text to Clipboard Marco the same problem with pasting to 1.Go To DOS occurs -- doesn't seem to make sense to me either.
Anyway, I appreciate your reply and report what I find after installing 2020 vdos version.
Thank you,
Tom
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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 4, 2020 20:36:08 GMT 1
Jos, Using the DPTEST Members Application that came with VDos, and after installing the 3-10-20 vdos version, the same Shift+Arrow problem remains. The screen below shows DP panel 1 form Members with cursor on First Name field . Using shift arrow keys, I should be able to move down to Add or across to Middle but cannot. Shift+DnArrow takes me to Contribution Panel Link which is the correct action for down arrow alone. When combined with shift key, downarrow should bring cursor to Add1. Tom DP Member Screen.pdf (51.14 KB)
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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 4, 2020 20:46:06 GMT 1
Can't seem to be able to paste image from clipboard into messages, so I did the DP Member image as attachment.
Tom
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Post by emendelson on Oct 4, 2020 20:54:26 GMT 1
Tom,
I don't use DataPerfect, so I may not know what I'm talking about, but I ran the Shell under 32-bit Windows 7, started DataPerfect 2.3y, and tried to use Shift+Arrow to move between fields. It didn't work. Am I missing something obvious? I also tried it under DOSBox; same result: Shift+Arrow acted exactly like Arrow. (EDIT: Ralph Alvy's Mastering DataPerfect says that Shift-Arrow is used to resize panels. It doesn't seem to say anything else about Shift-Arrow.)
And could you explain what this means: "capture text to Clipboard Marco the same problem with pasting to 1.Go To DOS". If you could spell out what it means, as if you were explaining to a complete beginner, that would be helpful!
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Post by Jos on Oct 4, 2020 21:05:08 GMT 1
To add: I ran DPTEST Members in NTVDM (Windows 7-32bit), the Shift+Arrow keys work the same as in vDos.
Jos
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Post by Jos on Oct 4, 2020 21:45:30 GMT 1
I forgot: A warning using DP with vDos 2020.03.01:
This version is ‘DP-aware’. The more recent the DP version (26+), the more vDos will execute directly, largely bypassing the DP pseudo code interpreting core. The latest DP26YI version runs at some 90% (!) of running natively in NTVDM. If networked, vDos easily outperforms NTVDM, while DP doesn’t stress the network anymore. But this was essentially an one time only proof of concept: An emulated CPU can be as fast, or even faster than the real thing, given you spend a real lot of time optimizing it for a specific program. There was essentially no response to this performance enhancement from the DP community. So I already decided to drop this 34KB extension in the next version.
I later on got a report of a bug in it, fixed it for if I would decide to reinstate this DP optimization. But with the 2020.03.01 version you might have to add DPOPT=OFF to config.txt if you experience troubles with DP.
Jos
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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 4, 2020 22:26:25 GMT 1
Jos, You are correct about pure keyboard arrow+shift not moving cursor. DPManual page attached explains the native capability which was tied to the numberpad arrow keys and only worked with numberlock was disabled. DPManual - Shift-NumberLock Arrow.pdf (54.01 KB) I forgot that because in the late 1990s I funded the development of DPMouse which added the shift+arrow key action to all arrow keys. I'm shocked that my dear friend and neighbor Ralph Alvy did not discuss this in his otherwise near perfect book. If you will provide an email address, I'll send you a DPMouse and database example for testing. Tom PS I am still using an OmniKey Plus keyboard with function keys on left and arrow keys on numberpad -- which gives you a clue as to how I see the DOS world. (Also, How Do I Paste From Clipboard??).
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Post by Jos on Oct 5, 2020 8:37:25 GMT 1
Now it makes sense, with Shift+Arrow the NumPad keys are meant with NumLock off. vDos should then return the corresponding NumPad digits with Shift being pressed. Instead it returns arrow keys, Shift pressed. Strange that this wasn’t noticed before by a DP user. I’ll have a look, won’t need DPMouse or a database example.
If you mean the Windows Clipboard: Ctrl+Win+Right mouse click will paste the text. Or Ctrl+V if CTRL+V=ON is set in config.txt. The latter is by default off since DOS programs can have their own implementation of Ctrl+V.
Jos
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Post by Jos on Oct 5, 2020 11:19:22 GMT 1
LOL, If NumLock is on and Shift (already) held down, Windows sends these messages with for instance NumPad 6/Right Arrow:
1 Shift released, Shift not down 2 NumPad 6/Right Arrow pressed, Shift not down 3 NumPad 6/Right Arrow released, Shift not down 4 Shift pressed, Shift down
One would of course expect:
1 NumPad 6/Right Arrow pressed, Shift down 2 NumPad 6/Right Arrow released, Shift down
Have to figure out how to correct this odd behavior. Can’t just ignore that extra Shift released/not down message, one could actually have let Shift go. Probably save the previous/last message, test for NumLock on, no key modifiers on like Shift, Ctrl, Alt, NumPad key pressed, but no Unicode set in the Windows message. Then set the DOS BIOS Left or Right Shift down status according to the saved message.
Jos
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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 5, 2020 16:36:16 GMT 1
I never guessed it could be that complicated.
My untrained though process ran to "if Jos can capture output for NumberOff Shft+Arrow keys using Win32 Command Processor or MSDos VM platform, that will tell the story" because DP Developers must have discovered Shft+NumPadArrow with Numlock Off sends a different signal that they then used to move cursor from field to field. It cannot be the same signal that shift+regArrow keys send because DP does not move cursor using those keys (but DPMouse does so that developer, Steven Patamia, must have been given the solution -- I'll try to contact him and see if he remembers).
It is not the signal for regular numbers 2,4,8 and 6 (even though WPDos and EditorDos converts those outputs to numbers in cases where numberlock is off and shift 2,4,6&8 are pressed -- but it has to be capturing output and converting to #.
Sorry for the rambling.
Tom
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Post by Jos on Oct 5, 2020 18:09:23 GMT 1
If you mean the keyboard sending signals: It basically only sends key number 80 (US keyboard - NumPad 2) is pressed or released. It was once up to the actual BIOS and/or DOS keyboard driver to store that key number and eventual determined ASCII code in a buffer for retrieval (by a DOS program) and ‘remember’ NumLock and Shift are down by maintaining flags in the BIOS data area (eventually read by a DOS program).
Now Windows (drivers) communicates exclusively with the keyboard, and sends messages about key presses and keyboard states to a program like vDos. It’s then up to vDos to translate those messages back to what the BIOS and DOS keyboard driver once supplied, update the keyboard buffer and states. But mind, that BIOS and DOS is emulated, a Windows program cannot communicate directly with the keyboard.
Jos
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Post by tomyuhas on Oct 5, 2020 20:16:17 GMT 1
Jos,
DOSBOX DP - numblock off Shft+NumbArrow works as it should on both win8 32bit and win10 64bit running DOSBOX.
VDos does not work the same as DosBox.
Is that helpful?
Tom
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Post by Jos on Oct 5, 2020 20:24:36 GMT 1
Not really, the vDos keyboard conforms to that of Windows, where you’re typing on. DOSBox maintains a virtual keyboard that can easily get out of sync with the real one.
I’ll send you a modified vDos.exe by wetransfer to test.
Jos
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